A FaceBook connection of mine, Leroy Hite (a right-wing Bush-loving Bible-thumping conservative but still overall nice guy) posted a comment which I had to respond to.
That there is a "Minister" and others posting as if in the throes of some orgasmic rapture while typing their bigoted responses dooming others to hell or worse, made this even more entertaining.
It may also be mildly disconcerting for you to see that supposedly educated people can look upon other faiths with such intolerance. They appear to be no different than Taliban In Trousers.
Since FaceBook is not open to non-members, I am posting here the recent (ongoing) "discussion". It has been a while since I posted something like the good old newsgroup "debates" of 2 decades ago. If you're Christian, especially Catholic, or Muslim, or Jew, etc. surely something will amuse and surely something will aggravate you. What better way to enjoy religion in the new year? :-)
Happy New Year, 2010.
Leroy Hite * Muslims can proclaim their hatred for Jews & Chrisians which is a standard teaching in the Middle East, in all mosques, yet most in the West believe that we all pray to the same God? The Muslims themselves state that Allah is only applicable to them.
Tue at 8:30am
[This was Leroy's comment on some news story. I read his comment as well as the "gems" below & responded]
T Rene' Bachus Bowers basis is "spirit of jealousy."
Tue at 12:10pm
Mark La Roi Liberalism kills brain cells.
Tue at 12:26pm
Minister Patrick Williams Moon god worship. They deny Jesus as the son of God because their allah is not begotten, neither can he beget. This sets them apart from us and dooms them to hell.
Tue at 12:58pm
T Rene' Bachus Bowers unless or until they repent and turn to the Lord Jesus Christ which many are doing. Jesus is mercifully revealing Himself to many muslims in dreams and visions. may many, many more be brought to the King of kings and Lord of lords by His precious Blood--the only Way!
Tue at 1:25pm
Minister Patrick Williams This is so true, many are having dreams and visions from God, and are coming to the Lord. God desires all men to come to a saving knowledge of His son.
Tue at 1:41pm
Imran Anwar Leroy, sorry, but that is a ridiculous and frankly stupid comment. Muslims believe in Allah, the ONE God, the same as believed by Jews and Christians. We believe in Moses, Jesus etc as Prophets of that same ONE God. Christian fundos (read Bowers's above) post about how "their" God is superior.
Stop spreading hatred and stupid notions about Islam. It simply makes you appear similar to hate-filled AlQaeda supporters with their message of bile and falsehoods about others.
Tue at 6:21pm
Minister Patrick Williams You may say the one god until the end of life but it is not the one God we worship. Our God has a son name Jesus, yours does not. Our God has extend grace freely to us and we are sure, you hope you make it. So you see they are not the same.
lets look a little further.
We believe God became flesh. Not the same god you believe in.
وَقُلِ الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ الَّذِي لَمْ يَتَّخِذْ وَلَدًا وَلَمْ يَكُنْ لَهُ شَرِيكٌ فِي الْمُلْكِ وَلَمْ يَكُنْ لَهُ وَلِيٌّ مِنَ الذُّلِّ وَكَبِّرْهُ تَكْبِيرًا
and say: "All praise is due to God, who begets no offspring, and has no partner in His dominion, and has no weakness, and therefore no need of any aid" – and [thus] extol His limitless greatness.
There are many verses in the Koran where Muhammad denies the deity, crucifixion, and resurrection of Jesus and that He is the Son of God. The Jesus of Islam is just a man and prophet. He is even considered to be a lesser prophet to Muhammad because Muhammad is considered to be the highest prophet of Allah. But our God name is not allah, but
Yahweh, vocalized as Jehovah the tribal god of the ancient Hebrews. In Judaism and Christianity, the name Yahweh is the personal name of God. A name you do not know.
Tue at 6:55pm
Imran Anwar Muslims believe in ONE GOD, supreme being, creator of the Universe, who sent his message to many prophets, from Adam to Abraham to Moses to the immaculate conception of Prophet Jesus. We're not taught Prophet Muhammad was superior to Jesus (who we actually believe shall return, not Muhammad, as the Messiah). I do not believe Jews believe in 3 gods like Roman-paganized later Christianity taught, with most of those "teachings" coming centuries after the time of Jesus, prophet of the One God. (I never could figure out how believing in 3 entities qualifies as MONOtheism, but whatever floats your boat, err, ark, err cloud to heaven, padre ;-)
Tue at 7:42pm
Minister Patrick Williams I never could firgure out how a people could follow a man who had a 8 year old wife. Was a murderer and had no internal peace. A man who took piece of the bible and patched it together with the most ungodly teachings. You will never understand the nature of God, YHWH because you don't belong to him. Jesus said no man come to the Father but by Him. So if you are over there and left out maybe it because he hasn't dealt with you yet. Seek him while you can. Time is short a we shall see whose god is God. Peace be unto you.
Tue at 8:22pm
Leroy Hite Imran - The Doctrine of the Trinity is impossible to understand! That's what makes it believable! Nobody would or could have made up a doctrine like that - One God yet 3 Persons! Can you name the 3 persons of the Trinity Imran?
Tue at 8:50pm
Mark La Roi Let's boil this down to the base issue: is Jesus Christ almighty God?
Tue at 10:37pm
Minister Patrick Williams Yes! And anyone who does not accept this is not my brother.
Tue at 10:56pm
Imran Anwar Partick (and others), you are welcome to believe that 3 different entities can be ONE God. It is not my need or plan or job to convince you about how non-Monotheistic the Roman-Paganized versions of Christ's message of ONE GOD became. Far smarter people have written far better treatises on that.
A simple study of history shows how "modern" Christianity was created long after Jesus time. Ironically, Muslims consider attacks on Jesus blasphemy (or when some suggest "Virgin Mary" was covering for an illegitimate child begot from a life of sin).
So, I find it laughable for you to say things about Prophet Muhammad considering the child-molesting Church is as alive today as the bloodthirsty crusaders and Church leaders BURNING people ALIVE as heretics were far more recently. Christianity a religion of peace? Sure, if you want a good laugh.
If you want to trade slanders on other's religions, remember others can do far worse, and I don't think that is what Leroy wants his page to turn into. Thanks.
Wed at 12:13am ·
Leroy Hite Imran - Did you read my post just above? Christians do not believe that there are 3 Gods & the Trinity was taught hundreds of years before the Romans ever existed (see Is 9:6 for one example in our OT).
The burning alive as heretics & the Crusades were a Catholic event & we are Evangelical Protestants.
I'm glad that you & I are FB friends. You are obviously intelligent & likable but have gotten wrong teaching from liberal Christianity which is not Christian at all my friend.
Here's that link again about the Trinity again:
Wed at 10:01am
Minister Patrick Williams Think one of the major misunderstanding they have of Christians is that they try to lump of all together. As you stated we are not Catholic and frown upon all they did in the name of God. We hold to the true church, whereas they did many ungodly acts and still do. Jesus is God and there is no doubt about this. I care not for their teaching, it no more then the devils attempt to kill the promise God made to Abraham that His blessing should be upon Ishmael, who He foretold, would beget twelve princes and would become a great nation.
The devil raised up a man to distort this promise leading them down the wrong path. It gets no simpler then that. God wanted them to serve Him, but their so called prophet introduced them to another god, not the one we know, and wanted them to know him.
Wed at 2:02pm
Mark La Roi "A simple study of history shows how "modern" Christianity was created long after Jesus time."
~I'd like to see your proof.
Wed at 9:57pm
Minister Patrick Williams He doesn't know any better. He has studied the way the church evolved over the years and Constantine the Roman emperor 324 until his death in 337. He was known for being the first Christian Roman emperor who stopped the persecutions of his predecessor, Diocletian, issuing the Edict of Milan in 313, which proclaimed religious toleration throughout the empire. The church split later into two sections, eastern and west, both Catholic not protestant as we are. It was under his authority many things entered into the church that did not appear in the first church of the apostles. Pagans were allowed to retain many of their traditions and this brought into the church a form of godliness, which still exists in the Roman Catholic church today, but he can't see that we are not the same. We don't chant, burn incenses, we don't refuse to allow our ministers to marry, recongize the pope as Gods representive on earth, pray to Mary or go to any man seeking forgiveness. Nor do we make saints out of dead men. It is in the name of Jesus we pray. I pray he will research this for himself and see we are not the same but hold to the true teachings Jesus and of the church. I think most muslim people over there and over here are mislead about the differences. Most protestants see Catholics as more closely aligned to muslims. They use the same rosary, which we don't and because the Muslims have a certain devotion to Our Lady and recognize her Virgin Birth and Immaculate Conception, were intrigued by the fact that Mary had appeared at Fatima, which was the name of Mohammed's favorite daughter and regarded by the prophet as the highest woman in Heaven after our Lady. In Zanzibar the sultan placed a wreath of flowers at the Fatima statue's feet. This is why they tolarate Catholics but not protestants. God bless.
Wed at 10:38pm
T Rene' Bachus Bowers May I say that we have been bought by that precious, most wonderful Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ?! Hallelujah! The Blood of the King of kings and Lord of lords; the very One Who said, "I and the Father are One." What a marvelous mystery!!! It was His Blood that brought us into the very presence of Yahweh, into the Holy of holies--not something any man, prophet or any other, could do. May I go so far as to say, you might want to sit down on this one, that, because we have the very Spirit of God living on the inside of us (Wow!something we humans cannot fathom but accept by faith,) we have become a "Holy of holies." I was reading just yesterday in the book of John, these words, "For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He (even) gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life. For God did not send His Son into the world in order to judge (to reject, to condemn, to pass sentence on) the world, but that the world might find salvation and be made safe and sound through Him." Jn 3:16&17 Amplified What a Truth! What a Saviour!!! We should be on our knees right now! The very next verse goes on to say that, whoever trusts in/believes in this Christ will NEVER be judged or condemned, but that he or she who refuses to trust in Him will be condemned. These are not any man's words, but the very Words of God. All people of every tongue and nation, who have believed and trusted in this Jesus Christ as the Only WAY, will be the ones to be caught up in the clouds when He returns to earth.
My dear Imran, these words are not for argument, they are for an invitation for you to see for yourself and hopefully ask more questions. If I may suggest, ask Jesus. Ask Him to reveal Who He is to you. The reason I know He will is because He revealed Himself to me--and changed my life completely. I love Him sooo much for His undeserved favor in my life.
Oh my Father, I ask you to show Imran how very much you love him. Reveal Your love to him and cause him to know that You have an amazing plan for his life--better than any-thing he could ever plan or imagine! Thank You for Imran!
Would You kindly bless him richly? It is in Your Son's mighty
Name that I ask You to do this, the Name that is above every
Name, the Lord Jesus Christ. Thank You Abba Father, Amen--so be it.
Yesterday at 1:52pm
Imran Anwar Patrick, thanks for the additional laugh.. "They deny Jesus as the son of God because their allah is not begotten, neither can he beget. This sets them apart from us and dooms them to hell." One, it is Allah, not allah. Like I say Jesus, not jesus.
Anyway, by your statement, will Jews also be doomed to hell because they do not believe in the tri-theistic beliefs you have? And, what is your Christian belief in what will happen to the Jews when Jesus returns?
Leroy, I understand that Catholics burnt people alive, killed in crusades for power and wealth, give more power and pomp to an elected man the Pope than Jesus would want, etc. So, do you consider Catholics true Christians or more of a cult?
BTW, the Nazis killed lots of Catholics but history showed Protestants got along fairly well with Nazis as they went about their "work".
Mark, God's gift to mankind, called Google, will provide you info on history of how the current Bible came to be. (Do the MANY "versions" suggest it is the original word of God sent to Jesus?). And, I'd like to see your proof of Jesus as the son of God.
Lastly, Rene, that is the whole point. Faith is a matter of personal choice, not knowledge. You can believe what you want, I can believe what I want. The best of us will be those that live good lives by whatever our faith is and being good to other people. Happy New Year to all you.
3 hours ago
[You will love the responses this got, see below, emphasis added]
Mark La Roi "Mark, God's gift to mankind, called Google, will provide you info on history of how the current Bible came to be. (Do the MANY "versions" suggest it is the original word of God sent to Jesus?). And, I'd like to see your proof of Jesus as the son of God."
~You made the claim, now I merely ask you to back it up. I will not do your work for you. Share your side and I'll share mine. Either you have proofs or you are just sharing what you've been told, which is not knowledge, merely agreement. God does not force us to have faith in nothing, but gives a great deal of evidence.
I am not looking to pick a fight here, you made the claims.
about an hour ago
Minister Patrick Williams Every: The word of God tells us cast not your pearl before swine. Those who reject Christ are swine.
47 minutes ago
[UPDATE: Hilarious to see him come back a few hours later, delete the comment above either not realizing or remembering that FaceBook emails participants of these Wall post discussions all the posted messages as a record, so deleting it on the Wall page does not mean they disappear! His new update was simply:]
Minister Patrick Williams Cast not your pearls before swine
about a minute ago
In any case, my fellow Muslims, as well as Jews, Catholics, Hindus and others who do not subscribe to this idiot's beliefs, I hope you enjoyed being considered equal "swine" in the eyes of Minister Patrick Williams of Elizabeth City, North Carolina!
© IMRAN 2010
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