Friday, January 27, 2006

Tell us, HOW MANY of US were spied on?

It is unbelievable that Bush still does not get it.

He is NOT above the law. This is AMERICA, not Russia, not Iraq. And now he has these tyranny seeking people like Gonzales as Attorney General (if anyone could be as bad as Ashcroft, it's him) and now Judges Robber(t)s and Alito {aLieTo(ld)} coming in to destroy the constitution.

I cannot stand George W. Bush, cannot wait for him to be out of office (and praying for minimum damage to be done to us, the US and the Constitution) but, I COULD cut him some slack on this issue of spying within the country on Americans.

I can be more understanding (though not very supportive) IF we can get an answer to a VERY simple question.

HOW MANY OF US AMERICANS WERE SPIED ON?

30? No problem. OK, it's still not legal, it's not the right way, but acceptable/tolerable to do something "in an emergency" to find 30 bad guys in 300 million.

300? OK, that's a little more worrisome, but still within tolerable limits. One person per million is sure to be found to harbor ill intent towards the USA - especially if we consider and include searching for gun runners, drug smugglers and those smuggling illegal criminals from the Cuba and Mexico endanger America almost as much as AlQaeda.

3000? 30,000? Is that the number? Is that why they won't tell us? That is not the number of people sympathetic to AlQaeda. It is more likely the numbers of people that oppose the tyrannical Presidency Bush wants and they are looking to shut up dissent.

What, are we living in the USSA? As I said, the numbers will tell a story.


26 comments:

Joanne said...

Given that this is George W. we're talking about here... All I'm going to say is that perhaps he can't give a number because he simply can't count that high.

Also, maybe he's embarrassed because this whole thing has nothing to do with national security. George W. is just so bored with all the free time he has not doing shit for the country that his new hobby is listening in on other people's "dirty" phone conversations to each other. (He's just upset he got caught and that his new habit has caused a national uproar. Poor Georgie was just trying to get his kicks!)

Can't wait til he's out either.

Imran Anwar said...

I love the fact that the only explanation we have so far is that only Al-Qaeda people were targeted. Uh, OK. So, if you know who the Al-Qaeda agents are, catch them all. What are you waiting for Bush Jr? Another 9/11? What a moron he is, and this time our fellow countrymen actually ELECTED him. Wow.

Imran

Anonymous said...

I wouldn't worry about Bush spying on your dirty conversations that you seem to be so worried about (Would you be so concerned if you didn't have something to hide?) He is too busy keeping this country safe by wiretapping international communications and preventing terrorist attacks. I know it would be easier to just let the attacks happen and then complain about how he did nothing to prevent them but I'd rather he listen in on some telephone calls and keep us from getting attacked.

Imran Anwar said...

Hahahaha. I needed a heart laugh this morning and your "opinion" (and I use the term loosely) provided that. You have Spoken like a true Bush coward, even afraid to state your name and identity.

BUSH was the one sitting holding his Dick (Cheney) while he was briefed the DAY BEFORE about 9/11 type attacks. Bush was the one who was sitting while the CIA (that his father shaped) and FBI did not talk to each other and the terrorists were driving around, even getting pulled over and let go.

BUSH IS the one who is sitting playing with Condi while Bin Laden thumbs his ugly nose at us. BUSH is the one who lied to start a war in a country that did NOT attack us. BUSH is the one who is constantly KISSING the King of the country where 17 of 19 hijackers came from AND that is NOT a democracy.

BUSH is the one who broke AMERICAN LAWS to spy on AMERICANS. No wonder he is trampling our Constitution, because people like you are not even intelligent enough to know what that document stands for.

I, as an American, have the right to have any dirty conversations (or phone sex if that is what I want) without the government listening in ILLEGALLY without a warrant.

If they get a warrant from a judge, they are welcome to listen to my calls, day or night, dirty or clean. But, you wouldn't understand the logic about balancing rights and responsibilities because of how deep up Bush' behind your head is stuck. Good bye Ostrich.

Imran

Ellen said...

Hello Mr. Communist,
My name is Ellen. I'm 21 and a Republican. Now, since I have much better things to do than thoroughly examine politics at this point in my life I don't know too much about this issue. However, I do know that I am an American and have the right to privacy and I am more than willing to surrender the phone sex conversations I have with my boyfriend if that's going to stop another towel head from bombing the building you work in, even if I wished that it would be blown to pieces. You, my dear liberal friend, are just an ignorant as me in this situation. If you were concerned about the safety of this country instead of worrying about who's listening to you jack off we'd be in a lot better shape.
Have a wonder Valentine's Day. Hope the phone sex is better than ever and I HOPE TO GOD (Yes, I said God) THAT SOME GOOD GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL IS LISTENING.

Imran Anwar said...

I love this. The amusing drivel on this thread it truly an entertainment bonus. Ellen, I am more American and believer in American values than you, or those like you iI your generation that seems to only live between beer chugs and finding 100 ways to have an orgasm in Cosmo magazine. Perhaps if you substituted some reading of the Constitution and our History instead of People, Cosmo and Us magazines, you would realize someone listening in to a phone sex conversation is NOT the issue. Since your mind is stuck in that analogy, I will leave you there. And, if those pervert government officials have such pathetic lives and no sex lives that they need to listen to my phone conversations to feel alive, maybe they should put some cameras in my bedrooms too. When you grow up and actually read something on freedom, civil rights, Constitutional rights, etc. that millions of this nation died fighting to create, win and defend, then you will have a better understanding. Until then, live in fear, as Bush wants people to live as scared rodents, but don't forget that subscription renewal to People magazine and don't forget to tune in to American Idol and Dancing With Stars. After all, we are at war.

Imran

Ellen said...

HAHA! Mr. Imran,

I am not living in fear because I have the security of a strong, conservative government. This country is better off than it ever was while Clinton was in office. The only thing he did was neglect the terrorism issues. Also, I am well aware of the history of this country and the Constitution of the United States, which makes this nonsense you write about possible. Next, can you actually think that capturing Saddam was a bad thing? If so, you need to take a look at how great the citizens of this country have it. The fact that I can chug a beer and read cosmo all day long is truely a blessing. Not having worry about which family memeber is going to get shot because of something like not having a veil cover my face all the way up to my nose is a travisty. Iraq is much better off with the troops there. Thank you for understanding my life as a college student so well, you must have been a prime example of one in your day.

Sincerely,
Ellen

Imran Anwar said...

Ms. Ellen, more Hahaha. Conservative? We have a right-wing religious whacko in the White House and a power-blinded gun-shooting VP giving no-bid contracts to Haliburton. Clinton was not my favorite but I'd take a 3rd term of him over the current moron. The "nonsense" can freely exchange is one of the rights we will one day miss if these tyrants stay in power. hahahahahahahaha. Who ever said catching Saddam was a bad thing. I can go into a Manhattan apartment, cause a fire that destroys the building, kills 100 people but kills one big fat cockroach and come out and ask "Was killing that cockroach such a bad thing?" What a silly example you give, for an educated woman. The son of a bitch Saddam was actually a secular tyrant (supported by Bush/Rumsfeld) whose country did NOT have religious extremists. SAUDI ARABIA, whose King George W. Bush (Brokeback Ranch?) KISSES and HOLDS HANDS with is the one who FINANCED 9/11 AND where women like you would be flogged for driving or showing your arms, much less your attitude. Why did we not change regimes there? Because Bush and Co. Make MONEY from BIG OIL. Wake up, Ellen. You sound intelligent and articulate and you seem to really care about the country. Please Choose to be an American more than a Bush-defending right-wing Constitution-eroding partisan. Please. Your country needs you and your convictions to be in the RIGHT place, not the RIGHT-Wing. Thanks.

Imran

Dijhili said...

I think its pathetic to think that some of you might actually be "spied" on. They have much better things to do than to listen to left wing numbnuts who think the gov is listening. As it is with the current list of suspected terrorists, the man hours to listen to all the phone conversations is beyond anyones comprehension. So if you think the gov is listening to you...I suggest you put down your bong cause you are too paranoid !

As far as Bush breaking the law....nope. its within his power...just like Clinton used it..and just like Jimmy Carter...but we already know that you will not say anything about that. Would you ? Stop being hypocritical and stop being a bunch of babies. If listening to my phone calls saves lifes...go right ahead, I for one have nothing to hide.....do you ?

Dijhili said...

Damage to the constitution ? I belive you mean the left liberal supreme court justices that are changing the constitution....we conservatives are trying to keep it as is and not alter it. Who voted for eminant domain ? LIBERALS AND DEMS ! Check the facts....

Imran Anwar said...

Amusing, but not even remotely interesting comments from Dijhili. As the actor said in the movie RUSH HOUR or something. "Do you understand English? Do you understand the words coming out of my [keyboard]?"

Where am I saying I am worried about personally being spied on. I am a Muslim, I already had the FBI come visit me "for being a Muslim" (not kidding) and were OK with me. I am as (if not more) at risk from terrorists and Arab fundamentalists than you are. I want us to be protected, but not by a tyrant spying on us ILLEGALLY.

If they did not do blanket spying, why not say, 30, 300, 3000 or 30,000 were SPIED on - WITHOUT warrants. Number of suspects found 0. Number of threats found 0. Only Bush (and witless followers of his) count(s) that as results.

As for MY calls being listened to, what makes you think I am not a show-off ;-) and would not mind someone listening to my "naughty phone conversations"?

I also enjoy knowing I have nothing to hide - so, does that mean we should do away with police entering any house they want at any time? Duh.

Good bye freedom, hello tyranny.

Imran

Eddie said...

It is important for us to realize that we must make sacrifices in this dangerous time we are living in. If they need to spy to makes us safer than let them. What you're saying is that they can spy as long as it is not Bush? So if Clinton were in office again it would be okay? You would have nothing to say, would you? But it's Bush so that's the problem. That doesn't make sense for someone who seems so intelligent. When I read your responses it seems purely personal as if Bush made fun of you on the playground when you were a kid.
No one is letting police enter houses or violating any freedoms. You call Bush a tyrant but all he wants is to remove tyrants from this world. You call Bush a religious whacko but all he wants is to remove the religious whackos who attacked our country. Wasn't it just announced that a terrorist attack was thwarted on the west coast? Isn't that a positive result?

Ellen said...

Hello Mr. Liberal Friend,

It's me again. I have to admit that this is my new favorite thing to do. I'd chose writing on your blog over Cosmo any day. Now, Dijhili's comments were, in fact very interesting. Is it possible you didn't find them interesting because they are true? And maybe we should let the police enter homes without a warrant...homes of registered democrats.

Yours Truly,
Ellen

Imran Anwar said...

Wow, Eddie, my friend, whare are you smoking? Stalin, Mao and even Saddam ALL used the same logic to curtail freedom as this tyrant BUSH is doing. We have a SYSTEM that allows judges (special courts available 24 hours) for government to get warrants to search on anyone. If the searches are so valid, why not get a judge to authorize it, as the law REQUIRES? What, we can't trust our own JUDGES?

Also, exactly what is the number of suspects found, plots found, or terrorist conversations recorded by this illegal snooping? ZERO. (A number even Bush can understand).

You are so blindly defending Bush that you are reading words that are not written or implied. ANY American President, even an intelligent one from the past or future, who broke the same law would have me writing the same thing.

Bush wants to remove tyrants? Why does he KISS the King of Saudi Arabia (talk about an inter-racial Brokeback cowboy-camelboy relationship) and not force regime change there? Iraqi women had freedoms even under the scumbag Saddam. Saudi women cannot sneeze without permission, much less drive. No elections. No parties. No criticism of the royal family. No tyrant wannabe Bush is learning from his boyfriend the Saudi king.

Bush announcing a terror plot in 2002 (which was not even a plot, not a plan, not an attempt, but something someone TALKED about) in 2006, an election year for his party, was such hogwash, it insulted the tragedy of 9/11 (which he was warned on 9/10 on and did nothing).

Eddie, wake up, think as an Amwerican, not as a zombie that this cowboy wants everyone to behave as.

Thanks for writing.

Imran

Imran Anwar said...

Hello again, Ellen. Nice to hear back from you. Ah, I am honored. Choosing this over Cosmo. I have to admit, I would make the choice based on who was on the cover :-) .

E.g. Charlize Theron, Cameron Diaz, Michelle Pfeiffer, Reese Witherspoon, Kirsten Dunst... those would be hard to pass over for replying to Diljihli or what. :-) But, then, I would be "reading" the magazine only for the pics. :-) Well, OK, I would delay the magazine flipping to respond to you, my favorite intelligent right-winger who I still have hopes of. :-)

But, seriously.... just when I was expressing hope that an obviously intelligent person like you would "get it" you disappointed me. Labels applied on people who expose your erroneous logic is not worthy of someone intelligent like you.

Sorry to disappoint you, shall I call you Ms. Right Wing :-) , but I am NOT a liberal.

And, I am not a Democrat. I supported Bush in his first stolen election, and cannot stand him in his second term when I see him as the biggest threat to our balanced system of government and our values and our global respect and our security.

Much that I have no love for judges who MAKE law with their decisions, I am sorry, I lost respect when you wrote "we should let police enter homes without warrats... homes of registered democrats." That is what tyrannies are composed of.... is that the kind of country you want us to live in? As I said, very disappointed in your opinion/posting this time.

Imran

Eddie said...

I'm insulted that you think I am high. I guess it would seem that way to someone who writes things as seemingly drug-induced as "BUSH is the one who lied to start a war in a country that did NOT attack us." If you think that Iraq wasn't helping terrorists I'd see a shrink and if you still believe that he did not have weapons that we KNOW he used in the past then I would lower your xanax doses as well. If you could give me an example of how your personal unalienable rights have been removed because of BUSH then please, please share.

If the JUDGES that we trust had authorized the "snooping" would it have been okay then? I'd imagine that since you are so against it that you'd still complain so why are you insisting he get permission anyway? Another excuse to hate what BUSH does I imagine.

BUSH is listening to international phone calls and you seem to have a problem with the fact that they haven't found anyone plotting something against the United States. And I'm high? Think again. It's because we're over there in Iraq removing the institutions that support and protect terrorists. Would you be a happier person if there were plots against us?

As far as BUSH doing nothing on 9/10 about 9/11 I'd be curious as to where that information is coming from and if you could possibly supply it for me to read. I refuse to believe that BUSH spent a whole day doing nothing with that kind of information. However, I guess it does seem plausible after CLINTON did NOTHING for 8 YEARS which I believe to be the true cause of 9/11. Our friend BUSH is just trying to repair a decade of liberal apathy.

Amwerican? A little egotistical don't you think?

Imran Anwar said...

Tccch, tcch, Eddie. I wasn't insulting you and just asked what you were smoking figuratively (especially as I did not ask if you inhaled) or maybe you were/are hallucinating.

YOU wrote that I was OK with Clinton spying on us but not Bush. You'd have to be hallucinating, or inhaling illegal drugs (the kind both Clinton and Bush are said to have used in their youth).

Saddam used Chemical Weapons on HIS own people in an INTERNAL uprising (caused by George Bush Sr.) WHILE American planes watched. Here is the info on US partnering with Saddam and Rumsfeld going to give more support:

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/history/husseinindex.htm

More importantly, Eddie, DO YOU READ NEWSPAPERS? Even a 7 year old (or about the mental age of this President) knows, IRAQ DID NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH 9/11. IRAQ DID NOT HAVE WMD. Iraq did have lots of Haliburton no-bid contracts, but that is a minor detail Dick Cheney shot off. Try to repeat after me Eddie. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. It is now a MUCH WORSE nursery for terrorists to grow and kill than Afghanistan ever was.

Oh, I forgot, Bin Laden, the guy behind 9/11 is still planning attacks on us (yes, the same guy whose family is friends with Bush' family).

Next, are you living in America or China? We have balances on the power of government, they don't. That is why the court acts as a balance. You don't seem to get (or care) that the laws ensure not just there is a check on government tyrannical or dictatorial methods but that special judges devoted to quick warrants for legal and needed spying on Americans or anyone else under court order exist. Bush bypassed them and according even to some Republicans that can be considered an impeachable offence. Here is just one site mentioning some names:

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/01/15/specter-impeachment/

Eddie, you can't seem to understand. These guys have us living in fear or hoping we will. Keep us in power, there was no attack so we kept you safe. If heaven forbid there is an attack, they'll say, oh, we are the ones who will get revenge, keep us in power. If the spying is so needed, why not do it LEGALLY, unless like other Bush-zombies you believe he should be above the law. If the spying (illegal as it is) also yielded NOTHING, then even more reason to do it legally. Duh.

And, Eddie, I am no partisan. Bush being an incompetent buffoon who is taking us to destruction does not mean Clinton was hard at work (well, he was Hard, while at work) fighting terror. So, stop being a Bush-Zombie and thinking anyone questioning his illegal actions or stupid actions is just a Bush-basher or Clinton-supporter.

Here is information that is HISTORICALLY KNOWN FACT. You can find it on WIKI under KNOWN HISTORY, not CONJECTURE but KNOWN HISTORY:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_family_conspiracy_theory

- Saddam Hussein was provided with weapons and funding during the Iran-Iraq War in the 1980s during the Reagan administration, when George H.W. Bush was Vice President.
- In addition, Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense under George W. Bush was the Special Envoy to the Middle East in this period, appointed by President Reagan. He met personally with Saddam Hussein during the Iran-Iraq war.
- Dick Cheney was G.H.W. Bush's Defense Secretary, and is currently G.W. Bush's Vice-President. Cheney is the former President and CEO of Halliburton Company which has been given an exclusive and unbidded contract in postwar Iraq.
-In addition, Halliburton's accounting firm was Arthur Andersen, which has been convicted of obstruction of justice, and allegedly committed fraud.
-The Carlyle Group is an investment group which includes members of the Bush family and the bin Laden family (one of the richest in Saudi Arabia).
-George H. W. Bush and bin Ladens were at a Carlyle meeting in a DC hotel the morning of 9/11.
- George W. Bush and Salem bin Laden were coinvestors/business partners in Arbusto Energy.

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/06/09/Tampabay/TIA_now_verifies_flig.shtml shows While private flights were grounded after 9/11, permission was granted to fly several bin Ladens to a gathering location. They left the U.S. before air traffic resumed. In total, four planes were allowed to leave the U.S. with Saudi citizens when the American airspace was closed.

Eddie, this is history, not fiction. This is fact, not Democratic propaganda. Wake up and see where the loyalties of the Bush team lie, in their self-interest, not America's. Try to be on America's side, Eddie, not the Republican or Democratic partys'.

Lastly, in my last comment, Amwerican is a typo, how is that egotistical?

IMRAN ANWAR

Jimmy said...

Well, isn't this the funnest thing in the world to do, looking at you people jawing each other to death.
Bush is an idiot, a fool, and a crook, who only cares about making money and making sure he goes down in history (although he may not like the present way he's going to go down). But why start jawing about him? If you believe in him, you're in my opinion an idiot, but you may keep your opinion (freedom of speech and freedom to insult). If you don't, congratulations. He's turning America into an object of hate for the entire world, both muslim and otherwise, and if they didn't have their lovely nukes they'd probably be hard put to it already.

Let Bush be an idiot. We can't do anything about him (unless 'we' are terrorists). He does as he pleases, and what he does is destroying America.
And no one stops him.

Imran Anwar said...

Thanks, great comment, Jimmy.

Imran

Chase said...

Imran,
You will believe any conspiracy theory out there, won't you. Congress has already said that Bush broke no laws in the anti-terrorist monitoring. The idiots (Joanne, for one) who froth at the mouth about President Bush not being able to count....? You welcome their totally ignorant comments....What are these people's credentials? Did they go to college, outside of the community college in town, to law school, run a business or one of the largest states in the country?

To your "connections" between Bush Sr, the CIA, Rumsfeld, Saudia Arabia and the like - what a bunch of stale crap. Halliburton has a connection to Anderson and so immediately any one bad incident in either of their histories, and whamo! both are corrupt at their core? You are only showing your own ignorance and lack of perspective and diseased contempt of America's role and heritage.

Have you worked in the Intelligence field, Imran? Have you worked for Halliburton and seen the work they do, and understand their history as being the most reliable and ready to take on difficult tasks? Do you know anything whatsoever about how the gov't seeks/awards bids on different kinds of contracts? Do you read enough to know that Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter have been just as "dirty" in their complicity in the way the intell community and govt contracts have evolved?

Bush overplayed the WMD issue in regards to Iraq. A PR failure. The stuff is or has been here. The propensity and will to use it was proven. But, even without that, WMD totally aside, Saddam needed to be removed, and the removal of a tyrant like him is sole good enough reason for most of us for this war to have been undertaken. His 12-yr snubbing of sanctions, and his theft of billions from his people, and the thousands who died or lived in fear are plenty reason enough for America to use the might of the blessings of freedom that we have, to reach out and make it possible for people here or anywhere else to have the same opportunities, or to at least have the chance to live life without fear and institutionalized poverty and ignorance. Your bleeding heart over petty things is only making your own cowardly feet squishy....

Get over your hate and your disdain for America. Stop reading the papers and watching the gadfly Michael Moore. Read some real journalism, based on real facts, and not that spewed to sell papers. Come on over here and see the lives these people lead. Talk about getting your head out into fresh air.....

Imran Anwar said...

Chase, thanks for stopping by and commenting. You write well -- too bad that the logic in your post is, forgive me for saying it, moronic. I do not know Joanna personally, but her writing and logic is far superior to what you used. You write well --- too bad it is mere words being moved about ignoring the real issues.

2400 DEAD AMERICANS in a war that has ONLY enriched Haliburton, that gets NO BID contracts from a sitting VP who was its CEO... you see that merely as a PR problem? Lies to start a war. Spying on Americans. Contracts to cronies... while sitting like a dumb dodo caught in headlights of an approaching jumbo jet, Bush ignored 9/11 warnings on 9/10 just like he sat like a dumb dodo listening to warnings about hurricane Katrina... Instead of Dubya, we oughta call him Dodoya Bush.

Ref. Your questions about what I know of how things work... I have had more opportunity to work with law enforcement and intelligence people (including US and Pakistan) than you have non-right-wing friends, Chase.

If taking out the tyrant Saddam was the reason to go to war why does Bush hold hands and YUCK KISS the Saudi King at Brokeback Ranch in Texas? Why not ask for elections there... the hijackers on 9/11 came from SAUDI ARABIA with SAUDI MONEY. Doh.

I love AMERICA, while you and your friends love BUSH and HALIBURTON. So, I speak up FOR America even when I speak againts American policy and government officials.... you only speak for Bush.

Thanks for your comment anyway.

Imran

Chase said...

Imran,

Do tell, what are your values? What is America's role and obligation in the world. Are you any better than Bill Clinton if you have to suck your finger and stick it in the air to see or care what the rest of the immorally subjugated or ignorant press of the world thinks? If 3+3=9, but a thousand screaming ragheads tell you you are wrong and that your education is skewed and not allowing for all the other possibilities, and that you are prejudiced by a non-compassionate, and non-multicultural perspective, are you going to give up? Please, tell us what your values are.

One request first - don't respond with the trite, "I'll defend to the death anyone's right to say anything, no matter how stoooopid."
Having rights, and responsibly using or acting on them are two wholly different things, which the idiot NEA-indoctrinated teachers of our school system forgot to add in their test-performance driven cirriculum.

Chase said...

Imran,
Use someone besides Michael Moore as a source, won't you? The contracts under which Halliburton went into the Middle East were signed by Bill Clinton. They preceded the CEO-ship of Cheney.

No, you are dead wrong. I spent over half a career working for one of the National 3-letter agencies. I have spent a year in Afghanistan, and am now in Iraq. Based on your "experience" (and I won't ask what side of the law you came down on) should know that intelligence work always has been, and will probably always will be searching for and sometimes finding a needle in a haystack. What is then done with that needle, and what kind of embroidery comes from it is based on other threads found, and patterns studied. Very little partisanship down at that level. High levels of effort, sweat and intellect. Then, throw that into the wind and try to predict what will come of it, or how reliable the sources were, and guess what their motivations were. Just like medical doctors who "practice" because there are few certainties, intell is a science, a petri dish full of squiggling unknown organisms, which no model can accurately predict. However, as much knowledge as you claim, or experience of which you may boast, it comes down to other things. Was it the right thing to do to topple Saddam and to fight the Islamists on their own soil, or should the appeasement of the 30's have been allowed to replay itself in Iraq and to spread its disease to other places?

Who was it again who turned down several offers to incarcerate Osama? Tell me that story again, daddy?

You have lots of fairy tales to spin. Most based on Chinese whispers and the newspapers left on your doorstep, I presume.

Chase said...

Imran,

What world do you live in, by the way? No address needed, just the general neighborhood.....

Yes, we have long-held ties with Saudia Arabia. Long before either President Bush. Political expediency and economic interdependence. Not driven by any personal enrichment. And since when has an American sitting president ever been foolish enough, even the most liberal, unfaithful, sex-addicted liars the Dems could find has ever been found to be enriching themselves personally in their official acts. Most are rich enough that they could care less about money or legacies for their children. Calm yourself, tone it down, try to look at things in a realistic sense. Sense, that is a good word. Breathe.....

I don't care for the Saudi monarchy any more than you do. Do you think Churchill was a fan of Josef Stalin in 1940 either? Churchill was the most virulent anti-communist in the British Empire in the 30 years before WWII. Part of his isolation in the 30s was due to his fervent warnings as to the evils of Communism.

However, out of expediency and to defeat the evil of Nationalist Socialism, he teamed up with Stalin. Churchill was without doubt the greatest statesman of the 20th century.

Yep, we supported Saddam against the Iranian horde in the 80s. Your hindsight tells you it was an evil thing to do; that we are complicit in Saddam's evil - shame on us. Too bad you weren't in charge. Oh, who started that cozying up, while wringing his hands for 444 days? Or were you not yet born then? That was expedient - that we choose the lesser of known evils to work with in opposing greater evils.

I know you are smart enough that I don't need to spell out our relations with the Saudis, the dangers of Wahhabism and Salafism to our values and interests. Back off on the frothing rhetoric and let fact, history and perspectives have their place. Don't be like the other sheeple who think wars are won overnight, countries are changed in the molecule shifting of a Star Trek transporter, and that all things can be brought about with as quick (and short-lived) gratification and satisfaction as your phone sex forays. Have you read Fareed Zakaria's book on Liberal Constitutionalism? Try it. He is an Indian Muslim ( I think ) who works as the international editor of Newsweek, but is perhaps the best mind the Washington Post Co. has in its employ. Read what he has to say about building democracies and American impatience and how foolish we are in so easily forgetting our own heritage in how long and what a struggle our predecessors went through to earn the freedoms we have.

Or perhaps getting your hands dirty is below your station?

Chase said...

I guess you have researched and found out that it was Bill Clinton who signed the Halliburton contracts...? As usual, when found out in your lies and deceptions, you clam up and head off on another tangent. But yet, in other threads you continue to rant over Halliburton's conspiracy to kill American youth in order to make a few million, and tie it all to Bush....you have no integrity with me...just a voice on a soapbox.

Imran Anwar said...

Hi Chase.... sorry, have you been going to Mexico a lot to enjoy legalization of drugs there?

I was a critic of several Clinton policies but How did Bill Clinton get to award NO-BID contracts to Haliburton DATED 2003?

Is Bush doing for Clinton what Lewinsky used to do?

Imran